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Clay Edwards's avatar

Perhaps there is another way of looking at this. If I recall correctly, there is a story that Plato may have riposted about Diogenes' pride, and that Diogenes admitted to. This goes to the nature of rhetoric in connection with politics in Gorgias and rhetoric as exchanged by friends in Phaedrus. I recall that Plato had Gorgias relate that rhetoric was an art form without considering rhetoric as a skill in making slaves out of trainers and doctors and getting others to make money not for themselves but for the master of rhetoric. In such way, Gorgias praised rhetoric in a rather flattering manner that praised himself as a trainer of verbal disputants. In fact, Plato proposed that rhetoric is not an art but an artifice of persuasion with those to be persuaded actually persuading themselves to act against themselves. In such way, Diogenes may have praised himself while condemning himself and therefore being unfair to himself as well as the rest of humanity. This may have been a problem faced by the schools of skepticism and stoicism as well. The idea of Hedonism and Epicureanism perhaps is to view a door knob opening the door to pleasure as the good and missing the blandishments of flattery. If the cynics, stoics, and skeptics failed to pick this up, we may be confronted with what Plato called a mistake of the mind in sophist, where people think they know what they don't know and which is handicrafted into folly. The object of conversation, discussion, and discourse look to be part of dialectical science in classification instead of Aristotle's taxonomy which focused on the attributes of parts of life as a whole. That is where my thinking leads me now. If this can be refuted or otherwise improved, please let me know your thoughts.

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